HN & FoC = more randomness, less tactics

from BANG! to last Beer

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c3le
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HN & FoC = more randomness, less tactics

Příspěvek od c3le »

I'm going to start a thread now in hopes of a good conversation regarding game play in general and with these two expansions.

I had a talk with my good friend and albeit she does not play Bang! frequently, when we're with a group of friends (some 6 people) she plays as well.

She told me that although playing Bang! with Dodge City is fun, the two other expansions do not contribute as much and make the game too random not making her enjoy the game as much.

I started thinking about this and she was right. FoC and HN for us "others" in the group is like a new refreshing wind but I think it randomizes game play and raises the bar for proper tactics to an extent I don't really like.

Especially from the tactic point of view. I admit it, the FoC & HN events create a lot of fun(ny) situations and unexpected happenings, but this is where they go wrong. Bang! still in my opinion is a game where tactics is needed and with the expansions even a highly set plan a single event card can make everything fall to dust.

I've actually heard from a friend of mine a game as following:

Outlaws are killed early in the game (of 8 people); the players leave the table to do something else. After about 20 minutes, nearly at the end of the game Ghost Town is drawn, the players are shouted back to the game and guess what, they end up killing the sheriff! How is that not an anti-climax?

I totally understand that for those still in the game that must've been a frustrating situation and I don't blame them.

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I believe our group keeps playing FoC and HN, and why not? It's a new welcome to our "old" DC expansion but when playing those events, I have to keep in mind...

don't tactic too far ahead, since a single even can ruin your game.

Which is sad.
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Suzy Lafayette
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Nice to see this kind of topic opened, I really like to discuss about Bang! :)

About HN and FoC I agree with you only partially, IMHO only some cards get that random increasing effect like Peyote, Vendetta, and the most are target FoC, an official expansion made up by bang funs, and probably not tested enough.

At the contrary I believe that even more tactics is given to the game by the most cards of these expansions. It's the mechanism itself which grant it: you can see the card that will be active in the following turn, so you can start to organize yourself... A Gold Rush coming... the Doctor, the Reverend, Blessing or Curse give to the players a lot of possibilities; I wouldn't say random, which is when 'draw' is part of the game (like Peyote).

And there's not only HN, I love also Lasso, Ambush, Blood Brothers, The Judge... a lot of tactics more! :D

About the ghost matter I can easily agree with you, but even more I believe a player dead in the very first minutes gets just bored looking at the other. There's why there will be official news during the year or the like :wink: but I really can't say more at the moment :roll:

DC has always been part of my group games, even if in the last years we tried back 80-cards original game too. Much more easy but it keeps its own 'meaning'
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c3le
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Suzy Lafayette píše:Nice to see this kind of topic opened, I really like to discuss about Bang! :)
Much appreciated. Likewise, I really hope others participate in this as well. Secondly, I thought it's a good topic :)
Suzy Lafayette píše: About HN and FoC I agree with you only partially, IMHO only some cards get that random increasing effect like Peyote, Vendetta, and the most are target FoC, an official expansion made up by bang funs, and probably not tested enough.
If I correctly understood you, FoC has influences by Bang! fans? Well, that settles it, then. Just because it's fun, doesn't mean it always works :wink:. But the randomness really bugs me time to time. Just the other day Peyote was played and I received eight ( 8 ) cards in a row where as one only got the first one. Not only is that random, one could call it an unfair advantage.
Suzy Lafayette píše: At the contrary I believe that even more tactics is given to the game by the most cards of these expansions. It's the mechanism itself which grant it: you can see the card that will be active in the following turn, so you can start to organize yourself... A Gold Rush coming... the Doctor, the Reverend, Blessing or Curse give to the players a lot of possibilities; I wouldn't say random, which is when 'draw' is part of the game
Well that explains a lot, then. We've played it (to a total of about 4 games now) that you never know the next "event" --> randomness --> :roll:. Then again, I don't believe anyone has REALLY looked into the system how the events are drawn. I'll come back to you as soon as we've played this the correct way.
Suzy Lafayette píše: About the ghost matter I can easily agree with you, but even more I believe a player dead in the very first minutes gets just bored looking at the other.
Should there be a large enough group (one game with 8 and the right player of the sheriff didn't even make it to his turn, although he had the +1 extra life, how does THAT not suck? :P), in our group, should anyone die in the first rounds, we rarely "just sit there watching the game being bored". Nor should anyone.
Suzy Lafayette píše: DC has always been part of my group games, even if in the last years we tried back 80-cards original game too. Much more easy but it keeps its own 'meaning'


Basic game + DC = kick ass. You know the game Munchkin? Or Carcassonne? I really hope Bang! does not become what they have that is in both Munchkin and Carcassonne there are way too many expansions! making the game lose its original "touch". DC gave new cool characters, a couple of green cards and the "dual" cards, nothing else was needed and the game is a success.

I hope these will offspring many more conversations to come!
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Before I also thought the extension cards were too random, but the more I play them, the more I appreciate their strategic input to the game. Imagine Apache The Kid. He is immune to your Indians, Bangs, Panic!, Duel... and there is nothing you can do about it. But with the extension cards, you have a chance: wait for Hangover, Blessing, Curse... Or my favorite card: Abandoned Mine. In the round before this card enters the play, you have to think really hard, try to set up trap, prepare all possibilities, manipulate the opponents... so that you can get the cards you want, sometimes twice!
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Suzy Lafayette
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iamj4de píše:Before I also thought the extension cards were too random, but the more I play them, the more I appreciate their strategic input to the game. Imagine Apache The Kid. He is immune to your Indians, Bangs, Panic!, Duel... and there is nothing you can do about it. But with the extension cards, you have a chance: wait for Hangover, Blessing, Curse... Or my favorite card: Abandoned Mine. In the round before this card enters the play, you have to think really hard, try to set up trap, prepare all possibilities, manipulate the opponents... so that you can get the cards you want, sometimes twice!
Personally I totally agree with you, that's the fun of the most strategical Bang! 8)

But a lot of people is used to play only basic Bang!, often without Dodge City as well and the Official Italian Tournament by Da Vinci Games (DV Giochi now) is organized without any expansion, there must be a reason :roll:
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