Suzy Lafayette - part II

c3le · Příspěvek od **c3le** » 20 srp 2007, 19:24

Hi, I have a question:

I have Suzy Lafayette and only one card in hand (Diligenza). I play Diligenza. Do I draw 2 or 3 cards?

The ability clearly says "As soon as she has no cards in hand, she draws a card." But me & my friends have had an argument, since I stated that I can draw 3 cards (as soon as I played Diligenza, I have no cards in hand
-> draw 1 card
-> draw 2 cards from Diligenza

What do the rules say about this?

Příspěvek od **srab** » 20 srp 2007, 20:02

I think that 2 cards.

c3le · Příspěvek od **c3le** » 20 srp 2007, 20:07

I still believe it is three cards. It depends completely on the order of sequence, though;

the two sequence orders could be these:

a) Suzy plays diligenza
b) check if suzy has cards in her hand (no)
c) draw a card (suzy has no cards in her hand)
d) draw 2 cards (played diligenza)

[i:2f4d97eac4]OR[/i:2f4d97eac4]

a) Suzy plays diligenza
b) draw 2 cards (played diligenza)
c) check if suzy has cards in her hand (yes)

Příspěvek od **srab** » 20 srp 2007, 20:49

Sry mistake 3 cards

, she check immediately after throwing a card on the deck.

Suzy Lafayette · Příspěvek od **Suzy Lafayette** » 20 srp 2007, 22:47

[quote:ed774ffe02="c3le"]
a) Suzy plays diligenza
b) draw 2 cards (played diligenza)
c) check if suzy has cards in her hand (yes)[/quote:ed774ffe02]

this is right according to the rules. The check is made AFTER a card has completed its effect, so after you pick the two cards of Diligenza. The same for Dodge, Derringer and so on.

Příspěvek od **srab** » 21 srp 2007, 07:11

I don't think so, cause from FAQ for BANG!:

Q22: Slab the Killer plays a BANG! against Suzy Lafayette, who has a Missed! as her last card.
After Suzy Lafayette played the Missed!, can she draw a card when she remains with no cards in hand (and hopefully play another Missed!) before the shot hits her?
A. Yes.

Q24: If Suzy Lafayette plays a Duel, which is her last card, can she draw another one before the Duel ends?
A. No, she must wait until the end of the Duel.

Q25. What if Suzy Lafayette hits El Gringo with her last card?
A. When El Gringo loses his life point, Suzy Lafayette draws a card because she has no cards in his hand. Then, El Gringo draws that card from Suzy Lafayette. Now Suzy Lafayette is again with no cards in hand, so she draws another card.

lucabil · Příspěvek od **lucabil** » 21 srp 2007, 08:31

It's sad that we all struggle with rules in point where the rules are not stated so clearly.

Normally, as emerges from (a general sense of many) FAQs, the effect of a card is completely carried out before anything could happen. So I think Suzy Lafayette is correct.

About the FAQs cited by srab, we're a bit on the edge ...

Q24 is in the general spirit of "let a card effect end before applying anything"

Q25 is different because is a matter of "in which order we apply character abilities when they could be applid simultaneously?" And here the answer seems to be: "you apply them in turn order: before the player whose turn is, then the others"

The problem is Q22 that lets Suzy draw a card while responding to a Bang. If you want my complete opinion, this is a crap answer. They should not allow that.

My dear c3le ... you can see that when srab talked about "the way they played" (in another thread) it wasn't because of lack of arguments, but because the rules don't cover correctly every detail.

c3le · Příspěvek od **c3le** » 21 srp 2007, 15:29

lucabil píše:It's sad that we all struggle with rules in point where the rules are not stated so clearly.

My dear c3le ... you can see that when srab talked about "the way they played" (in another thread) it wasn't because of lack of arguments, but because the rules don't cover correctly every detail.

Yes, somehow a fairly simple game can still cause so much trouble

But is it really so that if Suzy plays a Duel as her last card she cannot draw more cards? Silly

And thank you lucabil for pointing that out. I am sorry srab if I made you feel offended.

***EDIT***

The problem is Q22 that lets Suzy draw a card while responding to a Bang. If you want my complete opinion, this is a crap answer. They should not allow that.

Yea, in no circumstances should she use one missed! and hope for another to arise from the deck. Either she has two misses or she doesn't. That's my opinion!

Suzy Lafayette · Příspěvek od **Suzy Lafayette** » 21 srp 2007, 17:10

srab píše:I don't think so, cause from FAQ for BANG!:

Q22: Slab the Killer plays a BANG! against Suzy Lafayette, who has a Missed! as her last card.
After Suzy Lafayette played the Missed!, can she draw a card when she remains with no cards in hand (and hopefully play another Missed!) before the shot hits her?
A. Yes.

true but there's not anything special: Suzy plays the Missed (the effect of the Missed finishes), she remains with no cards, so she picks up a card.

Q24: If Suzy Lafayette plays a Duel, which is her last card, can she draw another one before the Duel ends?
A. No, she must wait until the end of the Duel.

in fact she must wait the end of the effect of the Duel she has played.

Q25. What if Suzy Lafayette hits El Gringo with her last card?
A. When El Gringo loses his life point, Suzy Lafayette draws a card because she has no cards in his hand. Then, El Gringo draws that card from Suzy Lafayette. Now Suzy Lafayette is again with no cards in hand, so she draws another card.

another time nothing special: Suzy plays a Bang (or any other hitting card) as her last card (the effect of the Bang finishes), she remains with no cards, she picks up a card.

I don't remember where I found that about the "end of the effect of the card she has played as last one", but I'm sure there something explicit somewhere about the General Store: Suzy plays General Store, she does not pick up a card because when the effect of General Store finishes she has another card in the hands, that of General Store. Perhaps there is something about also in the official tournament rules.

c3le · Příspěvek od **c3le** » 21 srp 2007, 18:41

...and at [i:252bf04e3d]this[/i:252bf04e3d] point we should all make a conclusion that

Suzy Lafayette is now a [b:252bf04e3d]real [/b:252bf04e3d][i:252bf04e3d]bitch[/i:252bf04e3d] to have in game because of all the rules!

Emiliano · Příspěvek od **Emiliano** » 11 zář 2007, 14:00

And the answer is...

two cards with Stagecoach
three cards with Wells Fargo!

That is because you have to wait the card to complete its effect before checking for characters' abilities.
Why Suzy can draw against Slab, then?
Because, technically speaking, the effect of the Bang! card is already over. The fact that you can play Missed! cards is a game rule, not a card rule (otherwise you could not use Barrel, Hat and similar cards against Bang!).
However you are all right, it's a hard call

.

Emiliano

c3le · Příspěvek od **c3le** » 14 zář 2007, 16:24

srab wrote:
I don't think so, cause from FAQ for BANG!:

Q22: Slab the Killer plays a BANG! against Suzy Lafayette, who has a Missed! as her last card.
After Suzy Lafayette played the Missed!, can she draw a card when she remains with no cards in hand (and hopefully play another Missed!) before the shot hits her?
A. Yes.

I disagree with this one. I don't think you can even try to "miss" it, when you only have one card in hand; To effectively avoid Slab's shot, she must either

a) have two missed cards
b) have a barrel in play and a missed card and hope the barrel successfully misses

lucabil · Příspěvek od **lucabil** » 01 říj 2007, 07:08

c3le, I think Emiliano's word must be considered the final answer ...

c3le · Příspěvek od **c3le** » 11 lis 2007, 21:13

lucabil píše:c3le, I think Emiliano's word must be considered the final answer ...

You thought wrong

lucabil · Příspěvek od **lucabil** » 12 lis 2007, 10:07

I did not explain myself ...
I've already expressed my opinion on the rules discussed here.

But, if I'm not wrong, Emiliano is Emiliano Sciarra ... isn't it?